You likely have heard of regenerative agriculture or the approach that aims to improve soil health and uses a range of techniques to reduce the use of water and other inputs to create a more sustainable ecosystem, but what if this principle could be applied to your mind? What if you looked at life through a posture of humility and curiosity, asking why conditions good or bad emerge vs. focusing on the outcomes only? What if there isn’t a formula to success? Have you romanticized the concept of regenerative agriculture but aren’t a farmer or rancher and aren’t sure how it could apply to your life?
In this episode, guest Tre Cates walks us through how to be a regeneratively minded human. We discuss how commodidized, institutionalized models of school, the American household, the corporate world have lost the interconnection of uniqueness and potentially the opportunity for better outcomes, harmony, or greater growth. By focusing on productivity and outcomes rather than exploring the conditions, we may be shortchanging our life experiences. In this episode, Ali digs into what happens when we step back and trust God vs. trying to “drive the formula” and how biodiversity in the landscape can extend into how you redefine beauty or success in your home or place of work. Tre is a wealth of information and we are sure you will have some a-ha moments in this one.
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Connect with Tre:
https://www.nrhythm.co/blog
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Hey, Trey. Welcome to the Naturally Nourished podcast.
Hello. Glad to be here. Thank you.
Yes. I am happy to have you on here and get to pick your brain and ask you all sorts of questions. I had shared with my audience in the intro, of course, how we met at the what good shall I do conference and how I really enjoyed your lecture. I felt like it went so far beyond the agriculture application of what regeneration is, but really kind of got me deeper into how I thinking through how I run my business and even how I run my household. So I think that today will be a really meaningful conversation for our listeners.
Thank you. Yeah. Actually, I was inspired to do this work from agriculture, so it’s deeply rooted in it, but it’s expanded in ways that I think make it more meaningful for all of us.
Yeah. No doubt. No doubt. So I love that in your form, I asked you how you got into this work, and you said, a deep commitment to revealing the potential in all living systems.
I loved that.
When did you develop that concept or or that vision, if you will? And and how have you nurtured it to where you are today? If you can kinda walk us through the the process of your experience.
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
I’d say that the beginning of that started, early in my career where I was very committed to individual trans people who, were seeking a different path towards living a more fulfilled life. And I then became very committed to what that looked like in a team environment, so building organizations with that same idea.
And then, probably with the early two thousands, and I began to, through relationships, be introduced to seeing it through the lens of ecosystems, the landscapes.
And and that really was the, in essence, the the trifecta for me was this kind of graduation from the individual to teams to recognize the full ecosystem, then realizing all of them, have patterns and and really behaviors that could inform how we design and manage in our social institutions and organizations. And so that was really the evolution and deeply rooted in recognizing that all these kinds of living systems are not measured the way that our current systems are typically measured, Meaning that we tend to focus primarily on productivity and efficiency when we think about our teams and the goals we set. And and we are just really turning that on its head and saying, yeah, what does it look like to look into these institutions, into to your family, into your teams, and see it through the lens of health just like we’re saying we should do with our body, with our the natural landscape that we’re all part of?
Yeah. I think let’s dig a little deeper there, and our audience has heard from, various regenerative agriculture movers and shakers and are familiar with the concept. But let’s just kind of break that down a little bit further maybe with a plant model for a good visual and then, how that idea of I I love that. Like, a lot of the talk that you were saying of looking at what emerges or the conditions versus you just mentioned the output output oriented.
Can you just go a little deeper there?
Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Actually, it was in my travels and spending time with the Sabre Institute and Allan Sabre where I was in Zimbabwe helping manage a ten thousand acre ranch. And I was on a walk with him, and there was a plant that emerged, that we saw that was what would have been considered an undesirable, not what you would typically want in the landscape.
And the typical approach would be what what do we do to eradicate it? What do we do to, to eliminate it from that landscape? And I remember the that moment as though yesterday, Alan said, what do you think the conditions were for that plant to emerge right there at that time?
Yeah.
And and I and I just thought, oh my gosh. I mean, I really remember saying that this wasn’t in retrospect. It was in the moment. It was like a moment of super credible clarity where I went, oh my god. We don’t we don’t ask that question about anything.
We we don’t really say when someone’s behavior shows up, what were the conditions that allowed for those behaviors to show up right now? Yeah. When outcomes when outcomes show up in organizations, instead of just saying what we like and what we don’t like about those outcomes, what were the conditions that were created for that to be the outcome? And what would we do in changing those conditions? How would the outcomes change?
And, and I just at that moment, it was early in my, growing understanding of how to support a healthy landscape or environment, and I just began becoming a huge student of supporting this kind of approach, but now applying it to all our social construct and institution.
I love that, and it really resonated with me in the constructs of functional medicine. You know, it’s the language of what is the root cause, right, not not what is the ICD ten code, what is the diagnosis, what is the intervention. It’s first understanding the the why, and I think that when we when we do that, it it helps us to focus more on actual nourishing or, you know, instead of amend, amend, amend the problem, really understanding it. I love that. Why? Why did it how did it get there?
Yeah. And and even as you would know, your emphasis on the body and nutrition and all the things we need to be thinking about as we care for ourselves, there’s usually not a single root cause. So when we think about it from a complexity standpoint, we recognize there are many interdependent relationships and dynamics. And the more we talk about condition in plural, understanding how those things are coming together like an ecosystem.
I think we began to recognize and have a posture of curiosity and humility because we’re seeking to understand and and really work within those underlying conditions versus trying to come up with a silver bullet solution or a prescription that actually isn’t really, going to address any of those underlying conditions. It it is, as you think, a Band Aid or, just dealing with it.
Right. Right.
Let’s kind of extend a little bit into maybe some of the whys just kind of following that conversation with Alan out with that weed or invested spease whatever whatever species that was. Yeah. And what types of questions were asked? Like, how how one would dig deeper in that scenario?
Yeah. In that in that scenario, we were talking about so there were all kinds of conditions around that. There were some bare ground. So what about, those early professional species that actually have a real important role to create conditions for better water cycle and and better nutrient cycles. So instead of seeing it as a, as something we don’t want because we’re thinking about the ideal environment way in the future, we’re not recognizing the role it plays in creating those conditions early in the process.
And so we began to, explore all the different things that would allow us to under understand the role of that species in that environment, providing what value in, in the context of creating healthier conditions.
I mean, I used it a lot, and this would be a common thing even in a a more conventional organization, but, you know, a startup will attract, individuals within an organization that are not really suited to work in a very corporate environment.
And, and so we talked about, so what about those different personalities and and different structures that may exist early in the establishment of an organization that needs a very different energy than it does later in the later stage of an organization?
And, and we talk about that even in like, let’s think about it in a family environment. What what does it look like when we’re raising our children? I’ve got two boys, that was a long time ago now, but they’re twenty eight and twenty six.
And and but we would really talk about, so what does it look like for them to thrive as they’re working through their own development early in the process of the family versus us expecting them to behave or to be something, that really is later stages in their own development. So it’s really just there are multiple dimensions to it, but it it really is holding this curiosity that allows us to to really create a condition that really is developmental. It’s creating opportunities for growth, and that means they need to be healthy in the in their design and function.
Yes. Yes. I love that.
Let’s talk a little bit about, that in the household a little bit further.
So I was thinking of, like, just chaos. Right? I’m thinking of this morning. Sure. My my child’s lovely, but I but I, and I only have one.
So there’s not that kinetic energy build Yeah. Of chaos, if you will. But I’m just kind of thinking of, you know, parents listening to this and and, you know, various things that emerge, diagnosis of ADHD, tantrums that are predictable in a cadence, maybe it’s bath time or transition in the morning, etcetera.
And, again, how we can get so prescriptive in our day to day lives versus taking that pause. I’ve I’ve tried to jot down. You said, if we can retain a posture of was it humility and curiosity?
Yes. And I I think that’s lovely to think of as a parent. Right?
Because I think all too often, we’re trying to, again, fix, amend, iron things out. You know? Okay. Well, maybe we’ll just get up five minutes earlier. We’ll do this versus really sitting with why are we waking up feeling chaotic, and and what types of environmental, spiritual, vibrational? There there’s so many elements of how we could imprint and or understand to make a better a better resolution.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, actually, I think, I mean, you hit all kinds of incredible things that you’re thinking about when it comes to family. And and, actually, no different from family to any small community of people who are trying to work their stuff out with one another.
But from a family environment, I I often we we and you would know this better than me. Why I’m I’m attracted to how we apply this approach in all kinds of different context, And that’s really in Rhythm’s commitment to see that really fall through, but to recognize that, you know, the realities of how we approach solutions in our current society is quick fix.
It is like, take this pill. Yeah. Do this one thing, and it’s gonna fix it all. And and and it doesn’t it doesn’t work for our kids. It doesn’t work for our schools. It doesn’t work for our health care institutions. It doesn’t work for our bodies.
We have taken this kind of linear, very industrialized mechanistic approach and said, hey. Just do this, and it will work. And it will work for you, and it will work for everybody else. And the only way that works is we externalize the things we don’t like about and won’t fit within our current solution or, you know, our our prescription.
And and and in doing so, we blind ourselves to the realities of all those difficult issues. So in starting to ask those questions, right, where instead of reading a book on on rearing, with kids where it says, listen. You just need to do these three things. We recognize there was some wisdom in that for whatever particular context that was that was.
But the what what were the principles that were driving that kind of the answer for whatever moment that was in time? And to recognize that part of what we see in in a living system is recognizing there are patterns and there are principles that we can put to work that allow for an incredible amount of freedom in terms of what that would look like in any given household or any given given context, and which then allows for us to be playful about it. Let’s try it. If it works, great.
If it’s not working, then let’s shift it again.
Continuing to recognizing behavior and reaction and and and what we need to do to to create better health conditions, for, for the communities or the families that we’re trying to apply.
Yes. I love that. And I wanna unpack some of the patterns that you have identified in your work.
But before we do that, it’s interesting because I was just thinking about, also, you know, this concept of monoculture or biodiversity.
And it’s interesting, I think, to for listeners to kind of keep applying this because I think that a lot of them are are so romanticized with the idea of a regenerative landscape, but yet to apply it in something like the daily household can can feel like a remarkable shift.
And, you know, I’m just thinking of, like, the ecosystem itself and that visual, how one can apply that within their own household of think of how we define beauty. And and so maybe there’s that concept of right pause and understand the conditions of of of why something’s happening. But, also, when you said not just being outcomes related. Right?
It’s like the way we look at beauty is very different in a monoculture industrialized farming versus wild multi species complementary regenerative system. And I think the same could be said in our household. Right? Like, so who said success is x y z and what that management or what have you has to look like.
What does that outcome have to look like? And maybe it is a little messy or maybe it is, not conventionally defined, but maybe that’s more beautiful.
Not only is it more beautiful, I I think it it brings out potential in the family. It brings out things that we would have never ever experienced because we’ve commoditized it. We’ve we’ve made it homogene the the homogeneity of what our current household and families look like continue to get in the way of bringing out the uniqueness of our kids and our partners and and our our community because everybody’s supposed to look and taste and feel the same way. And it and it’s just, to be honest, excuse my language, bullshit. Man, it’s just Yeah.
What we’ve done is watered down It’s hollow.
All yeah. It is. There is no soul associated with it. And and and that’s what the industrialized system is meant to do. It’s designed to do that because we don’t need all the variety. We don’t need the biodiversity.
Because the more of that, then the less we can predict, the less we can control, the less we can guarantee particular outcome.
That’s why all that stuff gets externalized. But leaving your your real life at the door when you show up at the office, because all we need is what skillset you have, and everything else is not something you really care about. And and we do that in the family environment. We’re told, you know, in in most environments, all environments, to be honest, we are told there are certain things that are good, there are certain things that are bad, and we eradicate what’s not, quote, unquote, good based on books we read, based on things we’ve been told, based on how we were reared ourselves and the family that we were part of. And all that’s done has created, you know, a soulless, community in a society that really has lost its way.
And, and it and it can change and it can change so fast if we just choose to embrace seeing it for the beauty that you are calling out and that it is versus trying to make it be the thing.
The thing. The thing. The thing.
Right. Right.
Yes.
Let’s let’s dig into some of the patterns. I’m I’m probably I’m sure we can’t get into all of them. Is it seven that you’ve laid out?
Six. Yeah. Six. Okay. Six.
Yeah. So maybe let’s let’s go through I I wanna start with holism, but then if you wanna pick the other two, we’ll dig into kinda three of them. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead.
I mean, do you have a specific question on holism, or do you want me to just dive into it?
To play it out. Yeah. Yeah. Just dive into it.
Yeah. So one thing, for us all to realize when we think about these patterns is these patterns are things that we recognize in in a living system that should give us insight into how it function.
And and once we understand how it functions, what we want is, us to develop an approach that influences or partners with making that functioning environment healthier. So what we wouldn’t wanna do so listen. We’ll talk about holism. Holism is recognizing, that the realities of a system, living system, one plus one never equals two.
It is there are some emergent properties when a whole within a holistic system that we could have never predicted. You you cannot scientifically look at hydrogen and oxygen and figure out how it became water. I mean, it just isn’t what would have been a expected outcome of that that design. And and holism recognizes when you bring these two different interrelated, you know, living aspects of the system together, there are emergent properties that happen.
And that actually, the science actually tells us that what what happens is life is an emergent property of connected relationships. So we think about, you know, bringing people back together in families or communities or organization, we believe life happens when we do that versus the disconnection, which is really siloing. Right? Siloing of things that really get in the way of our ability to, really build those deep relationships.
So that’s that’s really kind of the essence of polism, and and, you know, that may seem intuitive to some. But in reality, most of our organizations aren’t or families or our institutions are not designed with any of that in mind.
That it’s designed to shut those things down because then it’s less, quote, unquote, predictable, as a part of that.
The the next is interdependent. So it follows holism, which is recognizing that, you know, there are incredible amount of interdependence between all the all the life in the and to not recognize that, we can put emphasis on one aspect of it and then up shutting down the others, which is why extracting and and and, some of the things we’ve done currently in an industrialized system has been at the expense of planet, has been at the expense of people, and we we just didn’t realize that that would be the case when we really started down that process. It wasn’t really recognizing it as a theory of the independent relationship. It was seeing it only within the vacuum of that one particular outcome or that machine that was being designed for.
The next is uniqueness. We, and we just talked about this. Reason why sameness is what we see in an industrialized society because then it allows us to scale.
We’ve the unintended consequence of that is is the lack of diversity or uniqueness.
Right.
You know, when we see all the things around us, you know, a forest or an ocean or, even our backyard, if we’re just, like, going out there barefoot and just spending time outside, go, wow. There’s so many unique property to the living system yet. We’re trained not to be unique. We’re trained to be the same across all that. Those are probably the three. And, and then we’ve got evolution, nodal, and developmental, which, probably the one I would focus evolution sounds self explanatory or ability and and and nature to to adapt and and change.
And nodal being there’s no centralized control. It’s very distributed.
Mhmm.
And it allows for deeper learning when we see it that way. I can’t put my finger on a landscape and say, well, if I address this, it addresses everything. Actually, it’s not. That doesn’t exist. But we we do that in all of our social design.
And then the thing that probably, of course, all of this, which is gonna come out in a couple of things I’ve shared is this idea of development.
You you cannot, approach what we’re talking about without recognizing the health and well-being of all the members of the system and and and their need to grow and their need to, to be given the faith to become all they were meant to be in whatever context that is. And, you know, you you you could hear that in some spiritual traditions. You may hear that in self help or but the reality is is that’s the essence of the city, is that it is developmental.
And, yeah, we have, we have shut that down in ninety nine percent of our.
Wild. Yeah. And how about in the world of applying this within I I mean, I think a lot so I keep going back to this boy in my head for whatever reason. Like, I have worked with so many patients with new, diagnosis of ADHD with their children. And I feel like this is just such a beautiful extension in that space, especially when we look at acknowledging uniqueness.
And, that’s always my first kind of conversation is what are what are our intentions to fix?
Because because, you know, we can work with nervine herbs. We can work with upping magnesium bisglycinate to reduce, you know, muscle tension and spasms. But at the end of the day, are are are we not getting enough activity?
Is it appropriate for this age of a child to be stuck on a chair for eight hours a day? Is it and so I think that sometimes it’s difficult when one has to define success, but fitting into success doesn’t work for the for the individual. Right? It’s like it’s like this the the round peg in the square square hole. And and I think for for me as a parent and probably even extending this, like, as an employer and how I work with my my team, it’s important to understand that people are all in their uniqueness, in our in our need to depend on others’ strong suits, etcetera, and have that diversity that we don’t have to fix the person. We have to fix the conditions to create a more beautiful, less, conflicting experience, if you will.
Yeah. I mean, I I mean, you’ve you hit on all kinds of things, reflection.
And I I I would say that when we start to look through the lens of the you you begin to see all kinds of things that would change Mhmm.
In our design.
Our family environment could change. Our work environment could change. How we do health care? How we do education?
We we we wouldn’t do any of it the way we’re currently.
And and we wouldn’t because the life out of us.
Yes. Yes.
And and I I just I look at what we’re doing to try to solve what are things that nature itself would say. Just put put our child outside, you know, continuing to express themselves in ways that, really bring more, of the better condition of exerting their energy and being in an environment that actually accommodate those in an incredible way versus the one that shuts it down. Right?
I mean, I I the educational system, I understand it. I mean, I I I get it, but it its design was not to create conditions for people to thrive. It was meant to control.
Right.
Right. And, and, unfortunately, I get you know, I I I have been a parent where I’ve had two really strong willed boys at home that drove my wife crazy and continue to, you know, create things where it made it really challenging. But the reality is is I needed them to express the fullness, the essence of them being full.
Mhmm.
And, and what does that look like? And recognize there’s a there are all kinds of dynamics that that are inconvenient to us, as they express themselves.
So we often say, it is messy. I mean, really, what we’ve been trained and especially, you know, some of us who are type a, I’m a recovering type a.
And, I’m type a.
Yeah. Yeah. Where everything just needs to be, I mean, aligned perfect so that we can just get everything done that we’re supposed to get done. Yes.
In reality or, the developmental aspect of our system, none of it works that way. I it just doesn’t. I mean, you just you’re gonna be I will be surprised, and we should be surprised versus, oh, well, I expect that. I often say the emergent outcomes of living should be something like, wow.
How in the world did that show up there right then? For what reason?
I mean, we should be constantly surprised It’s it’s it’s it really says to be allowing space for God, you know, which is really beautiful.
I’d love to hear because I know you have a background in theology as well. But, I mean, that that’s kind of what keeps coming up for me as well. Right? You know, we either go extremely institutionalized, predictable, soulless, closing down, conduits for creativity, for spirituality, for exploration, for finding uniqueness, and and defining beauty in various ways, or or we dumb it down and monopolize it and and and shut down all of those, you know, I would say, I guess, conduits to to to the god in space. And I I think of, you know, we can see it very clearly again in landscape. It’s like, well, gamma derma or reishi mushroom grows in areas of toxicity, or we know that there’s these just beautiful in amendments that is that is in the DNA or the coding of of this beautiful creation.
But I think for some reason, in in a human model, it’s it’s more difficult to to do that or to get in the way, I guess, with legalism and and all that jazz.
Yeah. I just think, you know, again, we we have been told we’re we’re supposed to figure it out. That that there is a a particular once we figure out the formula, then we can apply it all. What what if there isn’t a formula?
What if there isn’t a particular design that applies to everything, which is all things industrial?
That that is the mantra. That is the the essence of all. And, you know, we we are meant to reduce things to their parts. Right?
We’re siloing things. We’re monetizing things. We’re standardizing things. We’re granting things. We’re centralizing things.
All all of that is I mean, we’re very clear what the outcome is.
And and then you you bring in the god factory. You bring in all the realities of this beautiful complex people recognized that it was meant to surprise us. It was meant to, bring insight to us that we could not have found in our kind of small moment in our small mindedness.
And we we’ve continued over at least we’ve accelerated that over the last hundred plus years where we have really doubled down on productivity.
Everything.
And I just say, so how do we measure really the condition?
Let’s let’s let’s shift managing or just the outcome and recognize the conditions are the things that we’re really trying to, put the emphasis. And and what does that look like for us to become curious and invest in that? And that’s where I think we we begin to be I I’ve said this. My faith and I don’t say this a lot on podcast visits or even in conversations because it can be misunderstood or misconstrued, but my faith has got bigger by embracing, not smaller.
And, because I I I can’t look at one particular thing and say, well, if I just do that, then I’m gonna get this out. The kind of if then what type, formula.
And and now I I just the greatness of it all becomes such a huge inspiration.
How do we continue to to embrace it?
Yeah. I think that’s really, really lovely. And right. I I mean, I was jotting down.
You know, it’s that trusting God. We talk about God food, man food. We talk about how, you know, the institutionalized birth has taken that that God miracle factor out. It it’s like man constantly tries to jump to the to the end of the book or to the, you know, the outcome.
Again, it’s so outcome oriented, and, I I think we sever ties of of really this this bigger picture. And and when we shortchange ourselves for outcomes and don’t just surrender or release or trust God in processes like this, I think we can, we can lose out on the wholeness of the experience for sure.
Yeah. I I mean and I would there’s there is there is so much beauty in understanding the underlying ecosystem and how it behaves, how it interacts, how it works.
I I think it would change how we do the how we do church, how we do God, how we do the things we’re talking about right now.
Most of it looks more like a machine in its design Right.
Of how we do everything versus the reality of the nature that we’re all deeply.
It’s it it would change all our No doubt. That I think it would would change the experience that most people would have.
Yes. Yes. For sure
Yes. Let’s talk a little bit about applying into what you do within Rhythm.
And, yeah, let’s just start there. Kind of what you offer companies, what consulting looks like, and how you kinda how what this process would look like to to implement.
Sure. Yeah. So, really, in Rhythms, namesake comes from this idea of what does it look like to be in rhythm with life.
And and that really has caused us to focus our attention on two key areas. One is capacity in the system. So we say, what does it look like for individuals, teams, organizations to begin taking this kind of what we call with life approach with life at the center? How do we how do how does individuals take that and actually apply it where, they’re doing work. And that could be a family, it could be community, it could be an organization, it could be a large system that they’re a part of.
And me, asking the system allows us to see things, to become aware, and then be able to act differently. So our design now shifts towards life at the center versus some kind of mechanistic productivity and efficient design. And then the second thing we do out outside of building staff is support organizations in multiple different ways that, may, you know, may come where we partner more deeply in a in a large project, over multiple years to, what we call the operating partnership where we’re actually taking these patterns and principles and applying them in the context of the work, in real live situation across industry. So we, will step in and partner with organizations, be the top rate organizations with these principles in mind, or deep become deeply involved as partners?
So those are kind of so one is about passing. Other one’s about showing it in actual practice. Okay. The implementation of that so that people can say, oh, wow. This is what that would look like in education. This is what it would look like in health care or in the built environment or agriculture, as a part of this process. But for us, it’s about creating, the capacity and the example across the world in in ways that this is actually put forth.
And what’s an experience like, I guess, for I don’t know whether the leader, it’s a better perspective to share, or or the, employee or team member when regenerative leadership is applied in an organization.
Yeah. I I think the first thing we say and kind of mentioned this, not specifically, but just in my overall description, is a deeper awareness of what is actually happening.
And so, you know, we’re often asking the question just like Alan asked that of me that day.
Yeah.
What what why is that showing up? And what could we if we don’t want that to show up or if it is gonna show up, what is it saying to us, and what are we what should we do about that? And and I I think it’s building capacity in those team to be able to ask those questions and then be able to then say, hey. We’re going to shift the design, so that we can experience different outcomes.
Mhmm.
And and some of it’s intuitive and some of it’s not. I I don’t think the majority of us recognize have deeply industrialized our thinking, our behavior, and our design.
Yeah.
And and we we just kind of say, listen. We’re gonna really open all that up so that you can begin seeing that. And it really is I mean, I don’t wanna over emphasize this, but it is really the kind of matrix metaphor, the red pill, blue pill. As soon as you kind of began seeing the world that way, you go, oh my good, Man. Which is which you you brought it to the family conversation. We we had some people go through, our work couple years ago, and now there’s a whole group called the the family group where everybody all families started getting together and saying, how do we apply this? For a family?
And so they meet monthly all in different places of life, all saying, what does that mean for how we would raise our kids or how we would share life together as partners, whatever that would look like? And and so for us, that is really just the beginning of that, and then it opens up all kinds of questions. And it it creates a lot of anxiety, and I’m just like, oh my gosh. I don’t know what to do because everything is all our tools are built in an industrialized society. What does it look like to have tools that aren’t just industrialized design? And and I think we’re early days in that, but that that is the desire. Our commitment is to continue to to work it in in that way.
Yeah. Yeah. No doubt. Well, it and it and it can feel daunting in some sense when it when you’re doing it within some constructive infrastructure.
Right? You know, like, I’m thinking of a company that has thousands of employees and is is modular and, you know, has x amount of square footage and space and and all these certain things. How how can you truly deconstruct that? You know, I can’t imagine them all working from their hills of their houses and some on the beach and some whatever, to to find their their their most balanced self.
How can you can you give me a little bit more of, like, a truly institutionalized application of, like, a a middle step? Is it just redefining rules? Is it looking at productivity of how they’re spending their minutes and and and asking them what lights them up?
What types of things can be done when you can’t make a ton of environmental change in the, I guess, employee leadership space?
Yeah. Yeah. It’s a great question. And and and, of course, every environment will be different.
But what we encourage is is to see it in a very nested way, which is, you know, the individual is going to occupy a role in most organizations. And that role could be able to bring more life to that role or it could suck life out of that role. So we we we look structurally at the design of roles that are nested within teams, that are nested within the organization or an industry, and and actually say, what does those designs look like that would actually bring more light to the and and then when you talk about monitoring, we just say, hey. Listen.
What does it look like to monitor for health just like we monitor for productivity and fish? We don’t say stop monitoring.
We just say, what is healthy about how we are getting productivity?
We all know industrialized agriculture in particular has found ways to create incredible amount of productivity, but now it’s at the expense of the health of health, health of the oils, the health of our food, the health of, you know, our body.
So what does it look like to get the productivity, but it comes with health, not at the extraction of health? And we just bring that lens to it doesn’t matter if the organization is ten thousand people or five.
We can start asking that question, and it’s going to as soon as we ask that question, it’s going to change the design of the organization.
And we say, let’s just continue to hold that question, as an important, mirror for us and begin to say, no. No. What steps can we take? As we’re trying to understand what that looks like.
Yeah. I love that. Awesome. Awesome.
I’m gonna probably shift to wrapping things up. So I wanna just give you the opportunity to share where my audience can learn more about the great work that you’re doing and kinda follow along with your journey. And then I’m gonna ask you, one final question.
Sure. Yeah. So we have formed a what we call a with life community. And the essence of the with life community is, be able to take all of these principles and patterns and be able to put it together in a way that allows individuals and teams to be able to put it to work. So if you go to with life dot community, there’s over a couple of thousand people already in the community that are all taking this approach and applying it to individual situation, their families, to work environment, to larger systems as a way to build their capacity and capacity to people.
And, and it’s a free community. You can jump in. There’s free resources, with any and all kinds of opportunities. And then, of course, you can take more detailed workshops.
InRhythm dot co is kind of the, organization that serves this with life community, and and and there are all kinds of different ways to, to build your own capacity. And and and just I just encourage you to to jump in and just start playing with it, you know, exploring it, just like many other people are doing that right now as well.
Love it. Okay. And then I I technically have two questions. One is a quick one. I always have to ask, all my guests what you ate yesterday.
As a dietitian, I like to just kinda get that insight. So, we’ll do that, and then I’ll just ask you real one quick wrap up. But so yesterday, what you had to eat from when you woke up to when you went to bed?
Yeah. Great. I only ate I had one meal yesterday, and, and that was a grass fed finished hot dog with onion side of avocado and tomato. And Right. That was my that was my dinner. And I did have one I can’t remember the brand, but I got it at Sprouts with the protein that you have to keep in the refrigerator protein snack bar.
Okay.
Yeah. That so those are the two things I ate.
Alright. Okay. And then just finally, just kinda closing words for listeners of, something they can apply today or or this week, to become a more regenerative human.
Yeah.
I I would just say when you see behavior, don’t talk about not liking or liking the behavior. Talk about what were the conditions for that be that behavior to to arise. If we just start asking that question, then it puts us in the mindset of talking about condition versus the outcomes of those.
So it could be a it could be the behavior of your your son or daughter, be to your partner, be a team member. Mhmm. Something arises.
Just start asking, what was the reason why that arose, at that moment? And, and and what she’d do.
I love that. And and the outcomes might be more beautiful than what you were trying to control in the first place.
That’s exactly right. That’s exactly right.
Totally. Love it. Well, it’s been such a fun conversation, Trey. Thank you so much for coming on the Naturally Nourished podcast.
My pleasure.
It was an absolute joy to be in the conversation. Alright.
That’s it. Thank you so much.
You’re welcome. Thank you.
